Crimson Slaughter formations have been spotted! It must be Christmas for Chaos! This time around though, we ended up with a pair of lumpy socks...
Here are the formations:
Cult of the Slaughterer:
1 Dark Apostle
2-8 Units of Cultists
Units of Cultists within 9" of the Dark Apostle are leadership 10. Any unit of Cultists that has lost models regains d6 lost models at the beginning of the movement phase.
This is really cool. Hordes of undying cultists sounds like a fun concept for an army. It was also theorized by one of our readers (Rose Stenborg) that this could be combined with Typhus' zombies for a truly unstoppable wall of bodies. Since Typhus' entry specifies "army" and not "detachment", this might actually work.
Brethren of the Dark Covenant:
1 Dark Apostle
1 Unit of Possessed
1-3 Units of Chaos Space Marines
The Dark Apostle can give every unit in this formation Zealot and Feel No Pain instead of shooting.
A solid choice if you were already planning on taking these units.
Kranon's Helguard:
1 Chaos Lord
1 Unit of Terminators
1 Unit of Chosen
2 Units of Cultists
1 Unit of Raptors
1 Chaos Landraider
1 Helbrute
Every enemy unit within 12" of one unit from this formation subtracts 1 from their leadership. If you have two units within 12" the enemy also subtracts 1 from their ballistic skill. All of the units in this formation are also stubborn.
Lords of Slaughter:
1 Chaos Lord
1 Unit of Possessed
1 Unit of Terminators
1-3 Units of Chaos Space Marines
Your Chaos Lord is a level 1 psyker knowing prescience.
Cool, more prescience is good.
Disciples of Mannon:
1 Sorcerer
1 Unit of Possessed
Roll two dice at the beginning of the game. The first time your opponent rolls EXACTLY two dice and they match this result, then a unit of daemons is summoned. Roll a d6, 1-3 summons a unit of horrors, 4-5 summon 3 screamers or 3 flamers, 6 summons a Herald of Tzeentch or a Lord of Change.
The chances of a single roll matching your roll is 5.09%. Rolls that have two different numbers will be twice as likely as doubles. This may seem unlikely, but you only need 14 rolls to have above a 50% chance of this happening. Keep in mind that every unit in your army causes fear, and forcing all of those leadership checks will add up fast.
When I ran Crimson Slaughter, this was a common combo. The sorcerer becomes possessed, and they try to flank my opponent while summoning as much as possible.
The Ravagers:
1 Unit of Possessed
1 Unit of Chosen
If the chosen champion is alive, then one of the two units can re-roll failed hits.
The Red Onslaught
One of each of the previously listed formations
Any time a unit of Possessed dies on a 4+ it enters ongoing reserves and must deep strike into play. New units do not gain any special rules from the formations that they were previously associated with. (I think this also means that new units can't get re-summoned a second or third time) Your opponent also subtracts 1 from their leadership.
The only possible way that I could see to play this formation would be to focus on reducing the enemy's leadership. If this were combined with the Nurgle daemon artifact that reduces enemy leadership you could force -3 to anyone within 12" of your army. Telepathy powers would become very powerful
Once again we don't see a version of the decurion detachment. The Red Onslaught includes one of each formation, but doesn't include any options to take other units like obliterators. Who knows, there might be more that we are currently missing. I am interested to see if there are any changes to the Crimson Slaughter artifacts. The current incarnation of the Crozius of the Dark Covenant seems to have been invalidated by the formation rules.
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ReplyDeleteI don't think the part about the Red Onslaught is correct. The way it reads says "they are part of BOTH formations" (aka the Red Onslaught as well as their original formation). It doesn't say "can be a part of all formations which require that unit." To me it reads you still have to take the full requirements of each formation but get the bonuses from that formation plus the Red Onslaught (but not others). Similar to how a Decurion means you get the overall detachment bonus as well as your own formation bonus but you can't be a part of multiple formations within the decurion.
ReplyDeleteEither way, I'm not a fan of any of these formations save the Cultists. They just really don't seem to add a whole lot in most cases. Take, for example, the zealot+FnP formation. You're basically paying a 100+ pt tax to get FnP and Zealot on one unit of Possessed and a few CSM tacticals. And that's only if they stay within 9" of the Apostle anyway. Realistically, the only units I want from that formation are the standard CSMs so I'm paying the apostle tax plus the Possessed tax just for FnP and I can't even give the Apostle a useful relic (like the brand) because he can't shoot or they don't get the bonus. I'll consider the Cultist formation just for fun but that's about it.
Yeah, I thought the wording on that formation was funky. Ambiguous at best, but more likely useless.
DeleteSorry having trouble collecting my thoughts today. I think I see what GW is doing here. Trying to push more apocalypse on us. I actually in that regard somewhat like these formations in that I will save it for my next 10k point game.
DeleteI have every one of these models and would love to field the Red Onslaught against say, the new Ork Decurion, or a swarm of nids. I think I am going to have to resolve myself to realizing I cannot beat Eldar or Tau with CSM the same way my Dark Eldar friend switched to Eldar because he could not beat my Nurgle Daemons (an a lot of other armies too). Because this supplement is clearly not competitive on a tourney level.
With that in mind I would like to field the Brethren formation a lot with max model footsloggers... charging against some blob guard or into gaunts. Or of course orks.
The disciples possessed one is fine, it's clearly an interesting bump for people who like to field of prophet of the voices summoner anyways. I may even include it with my Nurgle Daemon Incursion.
I really want to figure out how to work in the lords of Slaughter. I'm thinking khorne lord with prescience, daemonheart, axe of blind fury on jugger in a 20 hound unit from gorepack. Termicide of course. Khorne Possessed would just run at an enemy and pray for hot dice. No idea what I would do with the 1 CSM squad, maybe stick a khorne herald in them (Hey Andrew you could use your Uldorath conversion model). With melta bikers in the gorepack I think that would be a well rounded low points game army??? I don't know sounds kind of neat though. I'd say the Khorne Lord reads entrails as a fluffy excuse for his divination.
I have been leaning towards Udoroth being a Khorne Herald.
DeleteIf your area allows forgeworld (and you have IA:13), then I would put the random squad of marines in a dreadclaw drop pod. I have been just using 10 models with two melta guns, and they do work. Sometimes they contest backfield objectives, sometimes they go after tanks, but they are just enough of a pain that everyone has to find a way to deal with them.
It's not that the Possessed+prophet sorc is bad per se... I just have a hard time justifying it. If you're a CSM-only player it's as good as you can get. Give him prophet, stick him with Possessed, give him a spell familiar and he's a decent summoner. But that runs you around 250 or so points (if not more). You can grab almost 3 squads of Horrors for that same price. The spell familiar is really helpful, but 3 squads of horrors don't lose half their wounds if they perils trying to summon and they can theoretically summon multiple units per turn. So I compare that to him and wonder why I'd ever take him.
DeleteI do think I might as well try out a "Possessed" star with the Brethren of the Dark Covenant formation, though. 9 Possessed + Apostle in a Landraider. Flank them with Rhinos full of the CSM from the formation. Once you get up and get out, start firing away with the CSM and assault with the Possessed. It's a lot of points but it could turn out decent.
Side note: could I activate the FnP/Zealot from inside the Landraider? Takes place in the shooting phase but its not a shooting attack. Would the aura just go from the landraider?
Very true all around.
DeleteI should convert a claw drop pod one of these days indeed.
Threllen, I play mostly mono Nurgle so I do not use pink horrors, even though my wife has them. For me to be fluffy it is indeed as good as it gets for me :) also I can palanquin the summoner and use him as warlord (yes I have perils rolled a 1 then failed leadership before. Including Belakor and heralds I have done this 6 times.)
I like that idea for the Brethren... helps protect against drop pod alpha strikes and such... I have no transports only footsloggers though haha. You could mix that with a Nurgle daemon incursion too and cheaply start off with difficult to kill units hiding on objectives in ruins waiting for the assault to arrive. BTW does land raider have firing points? The way its worded I would think they intend for that to count as his shooting, like the Apostle would be screaming out of the hatch/fire point of a transport.
Side note about the overall formation since it's really confusing. It reads "At the start of each of your turns, roll a dice. On a result of 4 or more, each unit of Possessed from the Red Onslaught that has been completely destroyed is placed into Ongoing Reserve. When these units arrive, they do so using the rules for Deep Strike. Regardless of any formation they were previously part of, these units do not benefit from any Formation special rules - however, they can still be summoned back to the battlefield using this rule."
ReplyDeleteThis leaves me with a lot of ambiguities
1. It says "a dice" not a "a dice per unit." I take that to mean one 4+ brings back everyone.
2. It doesn't say "unit destroyed last turn." I also take that to mean you bring back ALL possessed, even if they were destroyed 4 turns ago.
3. How does this work for killpoints? The wording makes it sound like you are re-summoning the same unit back... not a new one. Would they not be worth a killpoint if they were completely destroyed but then brought back to the table?
4. What if the unit is destroyed, summoned back, and destroyed again. If you roll a 4+ are they still just considered a single dead unit so you only bring one back (and not multiply them into two squads)?
I think 1 and 2 are correct.
DeleteI think kill points would be the same as that resurrecting sisters of battle character.
4. There will be argument over that, but I think they can respawn over and over because it says they don't benefit from formation rules, however they can still be summoned back.
They can definitely respawn over and over again (the formation explicitly says they are allowed to respawn again). But the question is whether they are considered the same unit from before or a new unit. I see 3 and 4 as tied together. If you interpret them as the same unit (just brought back to life) then they have all the same wargear/upgrades/etc and they are only worth 1KP at the end of the day.
DeleteIf you believe they are a completely new unit then they would be worth 1KP every time they are removed but I would argue that means if they die, come back, and die again you now have "two dead units" that can be re-summoned rather than just the one.
I would lean toward the first interpretation where it's more like a "this unit just got hurt but its back now" kind of thing. That would be very powerful if you rolled a 4+ toward the end of the game and all of a sudden have like 4 possessed squads deepstriking in to hold objectives.
I would assume they are the same unit too. WYSIWYG right?
DeleteThe rule is basically respawning the same units over and over again. So they get their initial upgrades and configuration, but lose other formation benefits. As for kill points, you earn KP every time you destroy a unit. It doesn't matter if its the same unit destroyed multiple times. You would still earn kill points every time you destroyed that unit.
DeleteI think the cult of the slaughterer + Typhus has alot of potential. You can basically build a typus CSM style list of your choice but take the cult as your objective holding/contesting units. You swarm the board with fearless zombies who trudge after objectives while your core army goes to work. Seems an interesting combo :)
ReplyDelete635 points get you a Dark Apostle, 2 squads of 35 Zombies, and Typhus. Talk about board control. Heck, you could even put the Apostle in one of the two groups and give the entire squad Zealot. Re-rolling hits on 35 zombies ain't bad. Maybe it would be better to keep the zombie units smaller - say 4 squads of 20 - just because you can only return D6 models per turn even if the unit is massive.
DeleteYeah I have discovered with 7th edition and the multiple CADs that there is quite a bit you can do with zombies in casual games. I find 20 man squads on average are the most annoying for your enemy. It's like a sweet spot where your enemy has to commit more firepower than they would like to delete it, while your several other units of zombies run amok up the table. I have also seen msu of 10 hiding in ruins make it to the end of the game because the enemy didn't want to waste shots on a 50 point unit, and also have seen a 35 man unit of zombies tarpit a wraithknight for 3 full turns because it rolled poorly on stomps.
DeleteI should add though that heldrakes and especially wyverns are absolutely anti zombies but... who plays CSM or AM?
DeleteEh. If you know you are against a Heldrake, you can just put your zombies in a straight line and they can avoid the damage pretty well. If your opponent is roasting 3-4 zombies a turn with his Heldrake he won't be getting his points worth.
DeleteDoes anyone here have the digital version of Crimson Slaughter (I’ve only got hardcover)? I know the Black Legion leaks showed the relic table which included new text to say “you can take either relics from the main book OR these relics instead.” That seems to be the new model GW is going to (see the new Space Marines supplement). It would really make Crimson Slaughter a lot more attractive in general if I could take the old relics as well. Then, even if I’m not taking these formations, I can at least always take CS to get free fear on every unit and the only downside would be not being able to take VoTLW. I love Balestar of Mannon for my Sorcerers but it would be nice to still be able to take the brand and the black mace as well.
ReplyDeleteYeah they leaked that last week. Main codex and supplement relics are allowed.
DeleteThanks. I finally found a picture that had it. Nice boost to Crimson Slaughter. Now there really is no reason for me to field base Chaos Space Marines other than if I want VotLW on my Obliterators (only unit I ever take it on).
DeleteWhat are your thoughts on The Ravangers formation? Rolling a five man plasma gun Chosen squad in a rhino with rerolling all failed hit rolls that's supported by a Geomortis Sorcerer seems like a decent kill unit. Yea you need to pay for the possessed, but the still have their uses; running them next to your Chosen as a distraction or assaulting and securing objectives is decent.
ReplyDeleteI have tried repeatedly to get possessed to work, but I have never been able to do so.
DeleteRe-rollin misses is nice, but it isn't too difficult to get prescience. Another option is to spend the points from the possessed on more chosen and more plasma.
Overall, the crimson slaughter formations don't offer much. Especially compared to the new traitor legions.