I have had a chance to read over the unit descriptions a few times, and I have compiled my thoughts on the matter.
HQ:
Chaos Lord
This is your bread and butter for the HQ section. The chaos lord can take more or less every option and you can build him to fill whatever roll you need him to fulfill. Put him on a juggernaut or in a landraider, but get him into combat because he is going to wreck faces.
Daemon Prince
This guy suffers from lack of options. In both the classic chaos marine book and the daemons book there were a bunch of ways to run your daemon princes, but with this book there are only a couple of ways.
Herald of Khorne
This guy also suffers from some lack of options. "What do you mean I can't give him an axe of Khorne?" This guys is best compared to the Dark Apostle; you take a herald when you want to buff a large squad. Put him on a juggernaut in a squad of hounds, or run him on foot in a squad of cultists/bloodletters. Cultists also gain the extra benefit of gaining fearless. Mostly a non-competitive option.
Blood Throne
This guy got a boost because his six inch locus will now affect chaos marines in addition to daemons. In general I don't like chariots because I feel they are too fragile, but running one of these next to a few maulerfiends could be sick. If you are taking one of these then you are going to be building a list around it; make sure to have enough vehicles where this guy isn't a priority target.
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury
The classic bloodthirster. Nothing new here. No really. There are no options.
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
Once again, no options. This guy has the potential to wreck faces, but going last means he is going to be taking quite a few hits.
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster
I am very interested to see what people do with this guy. He has two shooting attack and a vector strike, so I would expect to see people flying around and causing havoc. D3 S7 AP2 shots could also prove useful against fliers. Of the three bloodthirsters this is the one I would expect to see most often.
Troops:
Chaos Marines
I would take a minimum squad in a rhino with a melta gun and combi-melta. You are going to need all the anti-tank you can get your hands on, and chances are this is not going to be a priority target for your opponent.
Cultists
Bloodletters
Bring an instrument and deep strike these guys to make sure that your your bigger daemon units (hey there soulgrinders) come in when they need to. Also the minimum squad size is now eight, so you can take a squad with a terminator lord in a landraider.
Berserkers
In an army that is geared to kill infantry these guys don't really stand out. They still suffer from all of the same issues: no assault transport and no options for power weapons or power fists. There are just so many better units.
Elites:
Possessed
The main formation requires one of these squads. I still don't know how to make them work, but the best I have done so far is having them on foot. Fleet increases their chances of making it places. In good news these guys now have both a mark of khorne and are considered a daemon of khorne, so they will get four S6 attacks on the charge in addition to their funky rules. I want to like these guys. If anyone knows an effective way to use them please share.
Terminators
I have had a recent love affair with terminators. This book continues what I know as these guys are the main (only) way to get a landraider. Other options include the classic meltacide. Either way keep it cheap.
Bloodcrushers
Lots of people hate bloodcrushers, they get insta-killed fairly easily, but in an army of many fast and tough options these guys may go unnoticed. Run them alongside maulerfiends, landraiders, flesh hounds, and bikers. Bring a banner, deep strike your friends nearby, profit.
Fast Attack:
Chaos Spawn
I miss my Nurgle spawn. Take these guys for their speed, but know that at T5 they are going to be quite a bit squishier than what you are used to.
Chaos Bikers
A great way to get a couple of melta guns (and melta bombs) up close. You need some anti-tank. This is a good option.
Flesh Hounts
Great option. Nothing different than before, but doubly good in an army of fast units.
Raptors
Who doesn't love deep striking melta guns? If there are other options, then I am not aware of it, because deep striking melta is the way to go.
Warp Talons
These guys got the same buff that the possessed got. Mark of khorne and daemon of khorne are a pretty sick combination on a squad full of lightning claws. The daemon of khorne buff also means that they will land on target from daemonic icons. Maybe someone can finally make use of the warpflame strike.
Heldrake
Once again, there isn't anything special here. There are a lot of options for killing infantry. Do you need another?
Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Those of you familiar with the blog know that I love landraiders. It is the only assault transport in an assault army. Unfortunately it is difficult to get as part of the army's formations. More than likely it will be in as a dedicated transport for terminators.
Defiler
I run a defiler every once and a while, but never in competitive situations. In this army I would probably never run one because...
Soul Grinder
The cheaper more durable version of a defiler. Honestly there is no reason to take a defiler over one of these guys.
Forgefiend
These guys can put out an impressive amount of firepower, but usually require some kind of twin linking in order to be effective. If you are allying in a sorcerer or herald of Tzeentch keep this guy in mind for prescience.
Maulerfiend
These guys will open up vehicles, and will get there on turn two. I would love to try out an army that ran three of these along with all the other fast elements. A good choice for this army.
Helbrute
I love helbrutes. I may be alone in this; the rest of the internet does not agree. This is the cheapest way to get lascannons (much less twin linked ones) into your army. As I have stated many times, you are going to need to open up transports before your army charges. These guys are more than capable of doing so, plus they are no slouch in combat if they need to charge.
Skull Cannon
I haven't ran these guys before because I don't have the models and I was never that into Khorne. There are enough units that don't have assault grenades where one or two could be justified as support.
Lord of Skulls
He's big! He's mean! He's way too many points! I want to like this guy, but he is twice as many points as an imperial knight. If you really want a destroyer weapon in close combat take three Bloodthirsters of Insensate Rage.
Next time I will look at the formations. This is where Khorne Daemonkin really get their flavor.
Hello, two things: regarding your take on the Daemon Prince - a model can only take a single Artefact. Cultists became more expensive, they're 58 points now, before they were 50.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to your article about the formations!
Good catch on the cultists. For some reason I was thinking they were 60 points instead of 50.
DeleteThe wording on the artifacts took me a few reads, but I believe you are correct. I guess that just re-emphasizes their lack of options.
I think the armour gives the DP that much needed extra durability, although when he is fully kitted out a Bloodthirster is gonna have a better stat line for the same points. I might save the points and invest in cheap units to get a free(-ish) DP.
ReplyDeleteI like my skull cannon, it is great support for units without grenades who have a higher initiative (Daemonettes usually in my case, ahem). At the price, a S8 ignores cover large blast ain't too shabby. Plus I used the spare bits from the kit to build a free Herald.
This army has limited heavy firepower options, but I like how it encourages a certain play style. I can see my first game next weekend (vs Nids) either being a triumph, or a total wipeout of my forces. But it should be fun, and Khorne wins either way!
Agreed, I don't see many games ended in a draw. Either way, someone is going to die.
DeleteFYI, I played skull cannons twice now. They are basically mid-long range anti-infantry. That being said, they are pretty good in what they do. First you can park them behind ruins and shoot all day long because they ignore cover. They fire a S8 large blast as well at BS5. So they are very threatening at range. They can also assault as well to net S7 hammer of wrath hits. The FAQ allowed the modeled bloodthirsters to attack but somehow never be attacked back. Not sure if that goofy rule carried over into this book. Either way they have solid offense.
ReplyDeletePeople seem to think that their 'assault grenade' skull rule is something you take them for and you just shoot a unit and then assault it through cover, keeping your init. All I can say is don't do it. You are putting your own troops in close proximity of the enemy, then targeting it with a S8 large blast that scatters. yeah, not really that smart. BS5 aside, you can blow up yer own stuff. This may not be that bad in a blood tithe army, but killing your own crap is doing your opponents work for them. Plus, demons pack enough beatface payload to take out most infantry they assault anyway, and don't need a scattering pie plate to soften them up first.
I think skull cannons are threatening enough and durable enough to draw fire away from other units. So use them as fire support. I think they are worth it.
Thanks for the info on Skull Cannons. They are one unit I have wanted to try out for a while, but never invested the $$$.
DeleteWhen I make an army list I usually allocate about 1/3 of the points towards shooting. If I can draw fire from my melee units then my assault team is going to do well, but if the ranged go unscathed then they can rain hell down on my opponent.
BS5 doesn't really scatter all that much tbh. Having said that though, they were useful in an all Daemon army simply because Bloodletters don't have assault grenades, and no one else in Khorne's daemon repertoire really cared because they were multi-wound models. Bloodletter's may pack a punch with AP3 weapons, but they're squishy as hell... Assault grenades at least gave them parity to attack marines at the same time which was frankly needed in some cases. Eating bolter fire, then eating bolter overwatch potentially and then having marines attack [i]first[/i] is going to munch through even a max squad of Bloodletter's fairly quickly.
DeleteBS5 doesn't really scatter all that much tbh. Having said that though, they were useful in an all Daemon army simply because Bloodletters don't have assault grenades, and no one else in Khorne's daemon repertoire really cared because they were multi-wound models. Bloodletter's may pack a punch with AP3 weapons, but they're squishy as hell... Assault grenades at least gave them parity to attack marines at the same time which was frankly needed in some cases. Eating bolter fire, then eating bolter overwatch potentially and then having marines attack [i]first[/i] is going to munch through even a max squad of Bloodletter's fairly quickly.
DeleteAt BS5 there is a 61.1% chance of your blast landing on target.
DeleteI really like this new codex! It seems really funny!
ReplyDeleteI am interested in that sentence "When I make an army list I usually allocate about 1/3 of the points towards shooting". It seems to me like I have already heard it before.... I don't remember where.... So my question is: Why that proportion? Why not 25% or 50? Is it a rational calculation?
Long story short, back when I played Orks I figured out that this ratio worked really well.
DeleteNo shooting means that your opponent will always focus on the most dangerous melee unit, but some shooting means that they have to choose between the immediate threat (shooting) or the inevitable threat (melee). Decisions should never be easy for my opponent.
A question about Kor'lath, the Axe of Ruin:
ReplyDeleteIn a hypothetical situation, a lord equipped with this ax then rolls Dark Apotheosis. As per wording of the rules, since the lord counts as "removed as casualty" when the prince is summoned, a Bloodthirster is summoned also.
And since the prince keeps the artifact, when he dies another Bloodthirster is summoned..
Is this legit?
I don't have my rulebook with me (at work), but rules as written are probably not rules as intended.
DeleteIf I had to guess, I would expect the lord to turn into the prince, but not summon the bloodthirster until the prince dies. Similar to not giving your opponent slay the warlord through dark apotheosis.
Even without summoning an extra bloodthrister this is an interesting way of making slay the warlord extremely difficult.
wow. I hope there is some rule that do not allow psionics to take that axe... Korne hates psionic.
ReplyDeleteNo psykers in the army, but allied ones are fine.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey, I just noticed vehicles lost the dirge caster as an upgrade. Damn, that would have been really useful to keep on my rhinos...
ReplyDeleteNo dirge caster, no dozer blades for landraiders, and no destroyer blades. Sad times.
DeleteLove the review. Short and straight to the point
ReplyDelete